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Optus deal questioned after spy allegations : ABC Lateline
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Compere & Reporter: Tony Jones

TONY JONES: The Australian Democrats have raised concerns over the Federal Government's decision to sell Cable and Wireless Optus to Singapore's communications giant SingTel.

Party leader Natasha Stott Despoja says there's a greater need for transparency in decisions that deal with foreign ownership.

NATASHA STOTT DESPOJA, DEMOCRATS LEADER: In relation to the Foreign Investment Review Board's decision to improve Singtel's purchase of Cable and Wireless Optus, can the Minister inform the Senate as to what's being done to increase the accountability of decisions made by FIRB (Foreign Investment Review Board)?

TONY JONES: Senator Hill said he'd look into the matter. Ms Stott Despoja also called on the government to release details of the decision made by the Foreign Investment Review Board to allow the sale to proceed.

TONY JONES: One man who's no fan of SingTel's operations is Francis Seow.

In the 1980s, Mr Seow was Singapore's Solicitor-General.

He was an associate of the PM, Lee Kuan Yew, and privy to the surveillance carried out by SingTel.

But, after Mr Seow began criticising SingTel's activities, he became an enemy of the state.

He was jailed, interrogated, had his phones bugged and finally fled into exile to the US.

Mr Seow joins me now from Boston.

TONY JONES: Francis Seow, welcome to the program.

FRANCIS SEOW: Thank you.

TONY JONES: What is your reaction to Australia's decision to allow SingTel to take over Optus?

FRANCIS SEOW: I must confess I was quite astonished that the Australian government has agreed to allow SingTel to acquire your company, Optus.

It seems to me that all the talk, the publicity that has been given about what SingTel in Singapore has been up to has not carried very much weight.

I really don't know to what extent the revelations of the activities of SingTel, together with the other activities of the Singapore government, through its armed forces, has played a part.

I have a funny feeling that it perhaps has not weighed as much as it should have.

I don't know whether the Australian people, and the government in particular, are aware that SingTel is the vehicle which the Singapore government uses to mount surveillance of Singaporeans and others.

TONY JONES: SingTel is a government-owned corporation.

How deep are its links into the ruling oligarchy?

FRANCIS SEOW: It's extremely deep.

You scratch the surface, you will get Lee Kuan Yew at the bottom.

You just can't get away with it.

It is so closely knit.

Nothing that SingTel does will be without the approval of the Singapore government.

Now, I don't know whether you realise -- and I like to repeat this again -- that some time in May of 1999, SingTel's covert telecommunication activities were brought, came out to light, and purely by accident, when a young Singapore lass complained that her computer had been hacked into.

Investigations into that complaint revealed that more than 200,000 computers had been hacked into by SingTel and its agencies without the knowledge or consent of the subscribers.

TONY JONES: Francis, you were the Solicitor-General in Singapore.

Were you aware of the extent of eavesdropping and phone tapping and can you tell us how sophisticated those operations were even at the time that you were there?

FRANCIS SEOW: It's extremely sophisticated.

You see, Lee Kuan Yew, the Senior Minister now, is a person who is very interested in all the latest gadgets and equipments relating to electronic surveillance.

He ensures that the internal security department and SingTel and similar type of organisations have the latest equipment.

And this is at great cost.

Not every country in the world can afford the kind of electronic equipment that Singapore is able to buy from the States, in particular.

TONY JONES: Were you surprised when you heard allegations being made in Australia that Singapore had spied on Australia for more than 20 years?

FRANCIS SEOW: Not in the slightest.

Well, what happened in Australia happened earlier in Malaysia.

In fact on this point I might mention that the Malaysians were extremely annoyed and later angered at the continual Singapore Government's spying activities in Malaysia.

Now, to such an extent that, in the late '80s, even the Singapore High Commission, through its High Commissioner, was involved in suborning Malaysian civil servants and armed personnel.

In the result, some 11 Malaysians, civilians -- as well as members of the armed forces -- and civil servants were arrested under the internal security act and the Malaysian Government demanded the recall of the Singapore High Commissioner.

But Singapore was able to get around this by accusing Malaysians themselves of being involved in similar type of activities.

TONY JONES: Given the long history of tension between Malaysia and Singapore, that is more understandable in a sense than Singapore spying on Australia.

What possible benefit could you perceive to them spying on Australia?

FRANCIS SEOW: Singapore has a penchant for hegemony in ASEAN.

It's interest is not only in purely military matters but also economic matters.

And Singapore wants to be the top dog in that part of the world, notwithstanding its size.

In fact, it is doing it through this various corporations which have slowly taken over some of your big companies.

TONY JONES: We are being told, though, by the Federal government that all possible protections are being put in place to protect this deal, and particularly to deal communications going through the Optus satellite, which also carries defence communications.

Should we be concerned, given those protections are going to be in place?

FRANCIS SEOW: Absolutely.

I don't really think that that paper or whatever agreement has been reached at between Optus, the Singapore government and the Australian government, I don't think it's worth very much, given Singapore's history.

You know, there's an old saying about a leopard cannot change its spots?

And this is I think a classic example.

I cannot see the Singapore government not being tempted after a little while to get back into the spying game.

It's in the blood.

It's in the bloodstream.

TONY JONES: Francis Seow, I'm afraid, I'm sorry we're going to have to leave it there.

Thanks very much for joining us tonight on Lateline.